Bringing a technologist mindset into the boardroom

Intro/Outro: Welcome to the Corporate Director Podcast, where we discuss the experiences and ideas behind what's working in corporate board governance in our digital tech field world. Here you'll discover new insights from corporate leaders and governance researchers with compelling stories about corporate governance, strategy, board culture, risk management.

Digital transformation and more.

Dottie Schindlinger: Hi everybody and welcome back to the Corporate Director Podcast, the voice of modern governance. My name is Dottie Slinger, executive Director of The Diligent Institute, and I'm joined once again by my fantabulous co-host Meghan Day strategy leader here at Diligent. Meghan.

How are you doing today with all the snow?

Meghan Day: You know I'm doing all right, Dottie. I am digging out here in New York City. I'm watching friends more further North. Enjoy that fresh powder skiing in the mountains of Vermont and New Hampshire, and quite jealous. I'm not there. Quite jealous. I'm not skiing in the mountains of Switzerland right now either.

Like I assume many of our CEOs from around the world, from the global 500, if you will, are hitting the slopes outside of Davos now that that's concluded. 

Dottie Schindlinger: Yeah, I would say the most skiing we're doing here in Rose Valley, Pennsylvania is falling down our driveway, which is steep as we try to shovel the snow, but talking about Davos.

Meghan, I feel like, you know, Davos, like everything else this past year has been all things ai, what were some of your big takeaways from this year's conversation?

Meghan Day: Yeah, it's really interesting. I would love to specifically speak to a comment from Jamie Diamond who I think. Encapsulates this like almost seemingly aha moment from CEOs or, I think they've had it, they've just decided to say it publicly that that AI isn't just about technology, it's about social stability and some of the concerns around that.

Jamie Diamond, I think to summarize, he flagged potential civil unrest if companies rush into AI driven layoffs. I think it's something that we have all. Thought about, but it is still pretty wild to hear that from a major US CEO. He's being blunt about efficiency. But he's also acknowledging something that I think boards and executives have been kind of skittish to say out loud.

You know, that mass automation, especially quickly without a human plan. Is really a reputational, a regulatory, potentially national security risk. And that's something that we need to take into consideration. 

Dottie Schindlinger: History's on his side. Yeah. In this regard. 'cause there are plenty of examples of this.

I mean, I don't know if you're a fan of the show on HBO called the Gilded Age Meghan, but it feels eerily relevant. There's a whole episode about the Pinkerton strike at Homestead in Pittsburgh about steelworkers demanding, like not dying on the job in droves. Yeah. And you know, it's happened before.

I think, you know, it's definitely worth flagging. It's definitely worth having a conversation about. Boy, it'd be great if we could get this right one time, rather than just going, yep, that's a potential problem, so let's go headlong into it. And have a major destabilizing force that upends the economy and causes us decades worth of grief.

I mean, it'd be great if we got this right one time, but No, I mean, it's a serious topic of conversation that I've heard not just from Jamie Diamond, but from directors at Round Tables that we did all last year under the protection of Chatham House rule, they will say, we're really concerned about what happens when.

There are wholesale sections of white collar jobs that are now eliminated and we don't have a plan for what to do with those professionals. Not least of which, because it disrupts things like the pipeline to leadership. If the way that you've always grown great leaders at your company was they cut their teeth on the basic stuff and grow up through the ranks and then make amazing leaders.

'cause they understand the whole job. If every part of that ladder gets eliminated, how do you get great leaders? Like where do they come from? 

Meghan Day: Brad Smith from. Microsoft frames it as a race. If humans stay static, machines win. But if AI is used to upgrade human capability, the machines can't catch up or they're not gonna catch up for a long, long time. And that I think is something that we all need to internalize, that the competitive advantage is not just having ai, it's how quickly your workforce.

Dottie Schindlinger: You're bored, your entire organization learns to use and embrace ai. So this is a really good segue, Meghan, to the conversation that I got to have with Earl Newsom. He's the CIO of Cummins Inc. But he's also on a couple boards and it was great to talk to him about. How do you bring a technologist mindset into board work?

I feel like this is the central question, right? We're hearing boards talk about how they're trying to find more technology talent to bring onto the board. We're seeing a big exodus of board members off of boards. Who knows if part of the reason is they're feeling, they don't really know enough about technology and they're ready to like jump off the bus at this point.

I think it was great to have that conversation with him. So why don't we give that a listen and then we'll come back and reflect a little on some of the things that he said. 

Meghan Day: Great.

Dottie Schindlinger: Joining us on the Corporate Director Podcast today is Earl Newsom, chief Information Officer at Cummins Inc. And board member of First Independence Bank. He's also a former board member at Beacon Building Products. Earl, thanks so much for joining us on the show. 

Earl Newsome: Thank you, Dottie. Thank you for the invite.

It is a fantastic, day because it's snowing outside. It's great to be inside with you in the warm.

Dottie Schindlinger: Well, you know, speaking of snowing outside, you and I had this amazing experience together at this wonderful program called Mellum in Iceland, and that's where we got to know each other. And so for the benefit of the audience, I wondered if you could start by.

Just saying a little bit more about your background, your career background, and what you're currently doing for those who don't know you the way I do. 

Earl Newsome: Oh, sure. Thank you for the opportunity to do an introduction. I always tell my story this way about my background. I break it down into three tranches, a 10 10 in a 20 year triumph.

And so the first 10 years has always been, I'm a military guy. I'm a West Point graduate. I spent 10 years in Uncle Sam's army, and then the 10 years in consulting from, a poor Android as we used to call 'em at Anderson Consulting all the way up to being a partner in Deloitte.

And the last 20 years has been in corporate America. And most recently, as you mentioned in the intro, is that I've had the opportunity to serve on a couple boards, right? So I've served on the board of First Independence Bank, and I currently serve on that board. I've served on the board of Beacon Products, as you mentioned, and I've also had the opportunity to serve on the board of nSight, which was a small services company, as well as I served on the board of Atmos, which was, an internal spin out from Cummins.

Most recently have gotten exposed to the board in many different ways. And so, it's great to be having an opportunity to talk to you about that experience and anything else. 

Dottie Schindlinger: The reason I really wanted to have you on the show, Earl, is that you've had this experience of making that transition from being a chief information officer to being a board member.

And it's one of the things that is a high priority area for boards this year, finding technology, talent, people that have a broad understanding of business practice, but then have deep expertise in technology, particularly in. New AI age that every company finds itself in. So I wanted to talk to you because I wanted to hear that story from the other side of the table, not from the non-technology board member looking for technology expertise, but from someone who came into the board.

With that, how has sitting on both sides of the table kinda shaped your perspective on what boards most often misunderstand about technology and the role of the CIO or the CTO? 

Earl Newsome: That's a great question. I would say a couple things, and I'll start first from, my perspective as a technologist on a board.

When you're a technologist sitting on the board and you're understanding from the board seat, you know, and you understand about the duty of care, the duty of loyalty, and you're luring about what boards are actually listening for in that sort of asymmetric, information model that the boards have to operate within the boards.

Operate knowing less than the management often does about the business that they're in. And so when you talk to the board, you gotta talk to them from that perspective. So my experience of being on a board is learning how to better present to my board. And so you learn to be a better board presenter, right?

By understanding this is the way boards operate, this is the information disadvantaged they may operate within. So you gotta be clear, succinct. And work with them to get an understanding of whatever it is you wanna present. So I've become a better executive, right by board membership on the other side I think about what companies need to be thinking about to not only survive, but thrive in the current age as we've gone from, you know.

Digital to cyber, to ai emphasis about how these major disruptions, right are impacting organizations and industries. It is often said now, and and I love this saying, he who wins AI in their industry wins their industry. And so if our duty of loyalty and duty of care is to help the organizations that we're responsible for win their industry and win an appropriate way, and not only survive, but thrive, these disruptions of cyber and digital and ai, you know, we need that technologist mindset.

At the board level to ask the questions of management so we can actually execute our duty of loyalty and duty of care, primarily the duty of care, right? And being responsible for ensuring that our organizations not only survive, but thrive. Through these upcoming disruptions, again, whether they be digital, whether they be cyber, or whether they be ai, all of those things are disruptions that a technologist on your board can actually help you manage through.

Dottie Schindlinger: So I love the idea of onboarding a technologist to help the board have more of a technologist mindset. But my observation, Earl, and maybe this is naive, but my observation is often that's not what happens. I think what often happens is I. A technology expert is brought onto the board and then is unintentionally siloed as the tech person.

And so every time there's a question that comes up in board discussion that is any technological aspect, every head whips around to look at that person waiting patiently for them to have the magic answer. So what should good look like, Earl? How should this work differently? That's clearly not the best practice.

So how should you really fully integrate a technology director into the board? 

Earl Newsome: Well, I think that's a very important, especially if this, that person's first board assignment. I think a couple things that need to happen there, uh, and maybe I'll put forth a slight recipe, right. Number one is that board person who's coming onto the board as a technologist, needs to understand the full range of responsibilities for the board and do their own education.

Using, tools such as diligent and others and making sure that you understand become certified in areas of board, actively participating. Then through that CER education first. So become educated, know how to read a financial statement. Then I think join the committee.

Volunteer to join the committee. Don't just be the tech person, the audit committee, you know? Get into the comp committee. Or the non-gov committee. Or whatever other committee. The risk committee, if you're in a financial institution, if you can be on those other committees, you get the education, you get the assignment to be in those other committees, then you start to contribute.

Ask good questions in those committees that earns you the right not to be the technology guy in the organization. So I think we as technologists, we ought to earn the right, not to be the technology person, but be the technology also person, right? 

Dottie Schindlinger: Yeah.

Earl Newsome: So that you wanna be the technology also person, by being able to ask great questions about the balance sheet or whatever.

And so I think that. Earns you the right, to do that. And then your fellow board members will see you as more than the technologist, right? That's your responsibility, right? To not be seen as only the technologist. I think the boards, I think that's also the responsibility of the chair of the various committees, right?

The chair should involve you and ask great questions to say, well, if the person is only being asked a technology question or they're being silenced in some way, I think the board culture, ought to be, managed by the chairman and find out ways to involve everybody actively, in the committee or in the discussion.

And so I think both the responsibility of the chair to help drive the right culture of the board so that everyone gets an opportunity to participate and contribute, and then the individual has to do their due diligence to ensure that they're ready to contribute in some meaningful way. 

Dottie Schindlinger: You touched on this a little bit a moment ago, and I wanted to go a layer deeper on this idea of the technologist mindset.

Could you share maybe an example of what a technologist mindset might look like on some of these bread and butter governance issues like strategy, capital allocation risk, like maybe just give an example of how that technologist mindset kind of comes to play on some of these core topics for the board.

Earl Newsome: I think this is a great question and I'm gonna answer that maybe slightly differently. Sometimes the technology mindset is not unique and different. 

Dottie Schindlinger: Sure. Yeah. Fair. It's totally fair.

Earl Newsome: So when it comes to capital allocation, when it comes to, you know, how do we understand what our capital, I think that's a, you need to have the right mindset and your technologist background may help you to think about it differently or.

Ask different questions about how we're allocating our capital. But if you're doing a shared buyback strategy, you understand what that means too, right? And so I think, you know, when you think about what does the technologist bring to the board specifically around strategy, it surround, how do we anticipate and prepare for the disruptions that are right around the corner that technology's bringing technology?

You know, mark Andreessen saying, software's eating the world. So what does that mean to our company when software eats our company? What does that mean? And how do we think about that differently from a strategic standpoint so that we're around 10 years from now. That's what the technologists will bring, a mindset about what happens to our industry when software eats it.

So that's your strategic hat. And then I think the risk hat. As we start to embark on this world of technology, you know, how do we understand the risk associated with any technology implementation, any risk associated with access or digitalization or AI ization, I make that word up and now somebody will use it.

AI ization, right? So, as we do those kinds of things, we're gonna inherit more risk, right? As we move more and more into the virtual digital AI realm. Our risk profile changes, right? And we need to think about risk differently. So I think strategically what happens with software eats your industry, what's gonna be your response.

And are we thinking about that in advance? So as we think about strategy, how we thinking about it, and when we think about risk, what are the risks associated with any implementation of technology? And I think the technologist mindset of having been there and done that. That's where it's different.

You know, you know, I, I can tell you, you know, I can try to describe to you that the platelets, that the stove is hot, but if you've never touched a hot stove, you don't really know.

Yeah. It's really hot. No, trust me, I've touched one. I know this is hot. You never wanna do that again. And so I think we're the ones who can see the hot stove in the room when it comes to technology.

Dottie Schindlinger: So I've been asking you to wear your board hat and sort of answer these questions from the perspective of being a, a board member. So I wanna switch that up a little bit and ask you a question from your CIO hat. What are some of the things that you wish your board had done differently, engaging with you and your team?

You know, if you could give boards kind of a, a playbook for how to partner effectively with their CIOs or their CTOs, what would you put on that list? 

Earl Newsome: What a great question. If I think about what would I do differently or what would I ask the board to do differently with engaging with the CIO?

And maybe I'll do this from, both vantage points been on boards and then as well as presenting to boards. I think, and I'll be fair to board members here in that. Well, the way I think about this is this, is that there are organizations that may not see their digital advantage fast enough.

What we really want boards to do is to help push management, to be thinking about these just from a strategic standpoint. Are we really understanding what our digital or AI dividends should be? And are we asking our technology organizations to help us benefit from that advantage,

and so how do we not become blockbuster? How do we not become, the next Kodak? And so, you know, boards should be really asking those questions of their technologists and helping their technologists explain to their companies that this disruption can be real. And they can support their technologists by saying, do you have a perspective on this?

And are you being listen to, are, are, are you, are you having the opportunity to have your voice heard in a way that which be listened to? And can we help you? Tell that story, and so when I think about. You know, when I sit in, you know, with, in the halls of technologists, talking about how they wish their organizations would say, wow, we really love this technology stuff.

You could really help us be better, go make us be better. Versus why my Blackberry isn't working, right? Yeah. So how, you know, how do we unlock. The true advantage of technology in our enterprise, and I think our boards can help us try to seek to understand what that true technology advantage might be and to help unlock it in our enterprises.

Dottie Schindlinger: I love that you actually just sort of answered the next question I was gonna ask you, so I'm gonna switch it up a little bit. I, I'm interested to, to get your perspective, you know, boards are not comprised of technology experts yet. To your point, the duty of care, the duty of loyalty sort of commands them to understand the business.

And if the business is being disrupted by technology, they've gotta know some things. And so, do you have any recommendations for those who really aren't technology experts or don't come from that background? What's the best way for them to kind of keep pace? Are there things they should be reading, courses they should take?

Like how would you approach it if you really weren't already a technology expert? 

Earl Newsome: So I would say, it's an interesting thing. How do you become a technology expert? And it's an interesting challenge in that I would say. It's actually more difficult than one might imagine. Right? Because

Dottie Schindlinger: yeah, they may not become experts, right.

They might be able to just be competent. Right? Yeah. Literate. Exactly. Become,

Earl Newsome: Literacy is probably more of an achievable goal. because competence, I think this is a fast moving world. Right. Technologists are having difficulty keeping up with the technology world, so, 

that's why I was, having difficulty answering your question because, technologists, you wait five years and all of a sudden what you thought you knew was no longer relevant. I often talk about it this way. Maybe this is a great way to think about this, is that we made.

In the mainframe error, we made 20 year decisions in the client server error we made. 10 year decisions in the internet and cloud era. We made three to five year decisions in the AI era is becoming a 90 day decision model, right? And so in the world of 90 day decisions where things are changing so rapidly, we've got to rethink how we maintain freshness and currency.

In the technology space. And how do you learn through, you know, reverse mentoring? How do you learn through continuing to stay up to speed and reading? How do you learn through, being the human sensor, right? So where you go out and you observe technology and use not only within your industry, but outside your industry, so you can bring that back.

So I think the way that technologists have to stay current. Is becoming that human sensor and taking advantage of that. Reverse mentoring, going out and seeing this in space meeting and going to the innovation shows where you're seeing what's coming next because next is tomorrow. Right.

How that might disrupt or interrupt your industry. That's how technologists have to keep up, I think for non technologists to keep up. Or to become literate is to continue to read. Davos talking this year about. AI industry, right? Getting the summaries from that, it's a great way to stay at the speed on what's going on in the industry, is listening to, what's happening in Davos.

And he seeing some of those CEO perspectives. I think that's a great way for board and board directors to get at the right level of understanding of, getting synopsis so that, attending shows like, and getting synopsis from CES. You know, and these other electronic shows and things like that, as well as staying up to speed, you know, with your board education through the various services who can maintain that currency, with the board education services.

And then lastly, just continue to read the great, newspapers that we have that are still available for us to consume. Becoming aware through. Kind of that observation and through capturing some of the synopsis from those, some of those very events and venues and vehicles, will give you the ability, to really continue to develop and increase your literacy in this very fast moving space.

Dottie Schindlinger: Before we shift gears, I wanna ask one final question to you on this thread, and that is, if I think about the line between business strategy and technology strategy, that feels very blurry to me now. It feels like those things are kind of becoming one. So I think about that in regards to how board structure, their agendas and their committees and committee work and talent profile.

Do you have any thoughts or recommendations about how boards might need to shift things up to be a bit more future ready, knowing that. Business strategy and technology strategy are really no longer two things, but they're really becoming one. 

Earl Newsome: Yeah, I think that's a great way to phrase it. Technology and business are one.

There was a saying, digital is the business and the business is digital. Right. I think now that's becoming even more pronounced as the business is AI and AI is the business. And so strategy needs to. Cover both, right? Again, what Mark Andreesen said, I think is so appropriate today is software is eating the world.

And when software eats the world, your business strategy becomes your technology strategy, right? And vice versa. And so you need to understand, again, that premise that whoever wins AI in their business or industry wins their industry. And that's what strategy's about. Where to play, how to win, right?

And if how to win technology is a mechanism of how we're going to win. That becomes embedded into your business strategy. So it's not a separate strategy. It is embedded within your business strategy. Therefore, the board, when they're doing their strategic work, should be having a plank of their strategy be not only just location, talent, technology.

You know, and that is gonna be a part of how we do business. In fact. I am encouraged for organizations, you know, as we move down this path, we used to have these separations of. Engineering technology, information technology, operation technology. I think they're all should become technology and I think we should be thinking about challenging our businesses from a board perspective to have a president of technology, right?

Where this president of technology is responsible for all of the technology functions. Not only just the back office, but they're looking across the entire technology portfolio. And how is that? Delivering value from a strategic standpoint. How's it driving growth? How's it reducing expense?

How's it mitigating risk? From a president of technology standpoint where they have. Line accountability, right? For the technology function, much like another president in your business unit has, as software eats your company, this notion of becoming a software company in the business of doing x.

That's the future of business is you're a software in the company that's in the business of distributing, you know, roofing tiles, right? And so when you become that software business that's in the business of doing this, or a software integrated distribution business you know that. Necessitate your strategy committee or whatever the committee or the full board that's looking at it is looking at it.

Looking at your company as a software integrated product company, and the company itself may need to rethink about how it structures itself with that president or technology leading that software integrated portfolio that's gonna drive growth, expense management, and risk reduction in your business. 

Dottie Schindlinger: So as you're talking, Earl, I'm thinking, so in other words, let's not dump all technology decisions on the audit committee.

Sounds like that's probably not the path to success. Success, not the path to success given how broad this is. Success. Well, Earl, before I let you go today, we've got three questions that we like to ask every guest that joins us on the show. So the first question is, what do you think will be the biggest difference between boardrooms today and 10 years from now?

Earl Newsome: Wow. I'm gonna go out on a limb and I love that thought. What's gonna be the biggest difference? It's gonna be something, you know, we've talked about digital colleagues in the workplace. What about a digital director? So you'll have AI be participant participating in the boardroom, right? As an AI director.

A digital director. That's a pure, digital, you know, being a language model with agency and that kind of stuff. Participating as a board member,

Dottie Schindlinger: it's happening. I think, I think you're right on the money. I don't even think it's 10 years. It might be 10 minutes, so that's great. The next question, Earl, is what's the last thing that you read or watched, or listened to that made you think about governance in a new light?

Earl Newsome: See, the thing I've make me think about governance, like from a board perspective and a new right. I think it is. I would say that I am actually, as I talk about currency and I talk about, you know, how does technologists maintain currency. I'm actually in the middle of taking as an AI course that's given by university.

And as I was thinking about that AI course and some of the things that it's trying to teach us around how do we think about. Risk from an AI standpoint and governance from an AI standpoint, was the thing that made me rethink about in the world of ai, in the world of, hallucinations and, and models and model drift and risk and reward.

How do we govern a world where AI is prolific? And you know, you AI may be going on in places in your company that you don't know about, right? And how do we think about governing a world where AI is prolific and available to anybody, anywhere on any device? I've been recently thinking about that.

Dottie Schindlinger: what is your current passion project? 

Earl Newsome: This is going be way off the beaten path. Right?

Dottie Schindlinger: I love it. 

Earl Newsome: My passion project right now is this, is that I actually belong to a golf organization. It's a group of guys that started in 1984 called the Blake League Golf Association, and we've been playing since then, going to Myrtle Beach, about a week, a year for the past 40 some odd years.

I've been going 37 of those years. I find it. The way we play golf a really finds a way to allow everyone to participate. In a world that's so divided, we have a way of playing golf that unites us all, it allows for somebody to, you know, shoot a 72 and lose money.

And so the way that we play and the games that we play have just so, it's so rewarding to me in the awards that we give, like we give out a green jacket, we give out a most improved golfer. We give out a bunch of awards that just promote unity, promote. Friendship. In fact, we say, you know, we have a toast and it's called to ships, you know, and it says they're wooden ships, they're iron ships, they're ships that sell the sea.

But the best ships are friendships that may, they always be, and that. Is that we say it and every time we meet, we say it sometimes every evening when we get together and live. It's about this concept of friendships and unity and coming together. And so my passion project is to take that magic that is the BGA and make it available to everyone.

And so I'm building an app called the BGA golf app we're in the midst of testing it and, making it available for people to use either for golf clubs or golf events or individuals to try to take that magic of the BGA in that ship's philosophy and manifesto and make it available to everyone.

Dottie Schindlinger: I love that. Well, Earl, thank you so much for joining us on the show. It's been so great speaking with you today. 

Earl Newsome: Oh, Dottie, thank you very much for the opportunity. I hope this was useful and helpful, or if not, at least entertaining.

Dottie Schindlinger: We've been joined today by Earl Newsom, the Chief Information Officer at Cummins Inc.

And board member of First Independence Bank. Earl, thank you so much for joining us.

Earl Newsome: Thank you, Dottie.

Meghan Day: Great conversation, Dottie. We were joking earlier that I feel like we haven't had, this perspective on the podcast since we started. This was sort of our original, Mo, when we got into this gig several years ago. 

Dottie Schindlinger: It's so true, Meghan. I had this incredible opportunity to go to this program called Mellum run by Insight Partners in Iceland in November.

It was me with a group of about 16 CIOs from all over the world. It was one of those forehead slap moments for me where I was like, we need to have this perspective back on the podcast because, we're hearing how many boards are looking for this kind of talent and then maybe not really understanding.

The best way to leverage that insight once it comes onto the board and what they need to do as well. Like how can they bring themselves up to speed? I mean, I asked Earl that question, and obviously you can't become a technology expert in like, a Fortnite, but you can certainly become more literate and you can certainly start to read some of the same things that your CIO is reading and maybe have different conversations with the technology team and really start to get yourself up to speed.

But what were some of the things that stood out to you, Meghan? 'cause he had so much good stuff to share. 

Meghan Day: Oh, I mean, the idea of making 90 day decisions instead of you know, years longs, 20 years, like how fast the world is moving around us and how short the window is until everything changes again.

Dottie Schindlinger: And not only that, but I'm glad you pointed that one out because he was talking about, in the server era we used to make 20 year decisions. Fast forward to the cloud software era, we're making decisions in three to five year increments. Now in the AI era, it's 90 day decisions that span of time from server level decisions to AI level decisions.

We're only talking like 15 years people. This is not that long ago. That's kind of the average tenure of board members in the us right? So if you think about it, a lot of board members are, maybe the last time that they were having to make these kinds of strategic decisions as operating executives, they were thinking in 20 year increments.

That's a big shift. I mean, that's a really hard left turn. I think if you're on a board these days, that's hard. Is there anything about the way the board is structured to help with 90 day decisions? I mean that's, you'd make two decisions between each board meeting. 

Meghan Day: It all comes back, Dottie, that we just have to flip the table and start anew.

Dottie Schindlinger: Well, and that's why I wanted to ask him like, what do you think needs to change about governance in this new era? And I thought some of his comments there were really telling. I mean, the fact that, you know, technology and business aren't two things. They're one thing that you need to have. A strategy and it is both technology and business.

Yeah. And you know, he kept saying that, the business is now ai, and AI is the business. Can't think of those two things as separate or as a department or as a project. It's the electricity, it's the undercurrent under everything. And I just wonder how many companies are really already positioned to do that.

I don't think it's many. No, I think it's, I think there's still. Making bets on AI and waiting to see what will pay out. And a little confused as to whether or not those bets are paying off. In the meantime, it's working its way through the, the bedrock and the infrastructure of everything. And it's all very squishy right now.

Like there's not a lot of clear strategy, clear pathways, at least in my observation for most companies. What do you think Meghan? 

Meghan Day: Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, I think that AI leadership, to steal a page from his book that AI leadership is now just talent leadership, and that is one in the same.

The companies that are gonna win are the companies that create and enable a workforce that is. Adaptable, skilled, aligned with the purpose and the mission and the vision of the organization, but can move at the speed that is now required and that requires partnership with ai.

Dottie Schindlinger: Well, Meghan, that's a good place for us to wrap up this episode of the Corporate Director Podcast, the Voice of Modern Governance. I'd like to say a few special thank yous, first and foremost, to our technology and board leader, Earl Newsom, podcast producers Laura Klein, Kira Ciccarelli, and Steve Clayton.

The sponsors of this show, including KPMG. Wilson Sonsini and Meridian Compensation Partners, and most especially, thank you to diligent the AI company for sponsoring this show. If you like our show, please be sure to give us a rating on your podcast Player of Choice five stars only. Please. You can also listen to our episodes and see more from Diligent Institute by going to diligent.com/resources.

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